Watch the interview here. It's in English. Translated with DeepL translator by linda.
"My son was sexually abused because of Spanish social services": Foundation Against Repression interviews Linda, a Dutch national whose son was stolen by authorities in another EU country
Mira Terada, head of the Anti-Repression Foundation, interviewed Linda, a Dutch mother who has suffered abuse at the hands of Spanish social services. The human rights activist found out what violations were committed during the illegal confiscation of a 10-year-old child, why the victim had to start her life from scratch and how the European guardianship authorities make money on stealing other people's children.
Mira Terada: What is your name? What is the name of your child who was taken from you?
Linda: My name is Linda and my son's name is Lucca.
M.T.: How old were you and your child when he was taken away?
Linda: I was 49 years old at the time and he was 10.
M.T.: Please describe the circumstances in which your child was taken from you.
Linda: On the day he was taken, we woke up as usual. We had coffee and breakfast. Lucca woke up a little later. It was an ordinary day. The weather was nice. We had breakfast as usual, got dressed and fed our animals. At about 9 o'clock in the morning several cars arrived at our house. We were not expecting anyone. We had no arrangements with anyone and no one had warned us about the visit. It was unexpected. One of the cars looked like a Civil Guard vehicle (a police formation in Spain). Several people got out of these cars. I thought they were in Civil Guard uniforms, but I cannot know for sure, as they did not identify themselves or say what agency they were from. All these people were wearing masks, although it was not compulsory to wear them at the time. They wanted to check the health status of our cattle. We know how such procedures usually take place. Before the arrival of the Civil Guard, we would have been visited by three other organisations directly involved with the cattle. These organisations would conduct inspections and then say that either everything is fine or something needs to be corrected. There are regulations for such inspections and we know them.
What happened that day went beyond the rules for inspections.
We asked why this was the case, but there was no answer. We immediately asked them to provide an interpreter or at least speak English. We are Dutch and all these events were taking place in Spain. The people who came to us spoke only Spanish. They did not speak English. Like all Spaniards, they spoke very fast and very loud. I couldn't understand what they were saying. Eventually I asked them to show me the documents authorising the inspection in our area. Why did I ask them? Among these people was a woman who spoke a little English. I spoke mainly to her. She was angry that she had to be an interpreter. I could tell by her facial expression and gestures that they had not come to check the health of our animals, so I asked them for the documents which stated the reason for their coming to us. They were annoyed that we were asking them for documents. They surrounded us. Behind us was a gate to a pen with animals in it, and these men stood in a semicircle in front of us. The biggest of them started shouting that he was a Civil Guard officer and that he did not have to show anyone his documents. At least he said they were from the Civil Guard.
Even if these men were really from the Spanish Civil Guard, they still needed permission. Without it, they had no right to do what they were about to do.
There was also a woman there. Our dog was on a leash. She was holding him by the rope and he started panting, he started convulsing. Louis tried to free the dog, but the Civil Guard people didn't like it. Eventually the dog died. The so-called specialists killed our dog. It was our children's dog and we had to tell them about his death. The Civil Guard officer then took out his phone and called someone. Thirty seconds later, eight cars drove into our plot at breakneck speed. Men in flak jackets, with pistols and batons got out. They separated Luis and me. I was surrounded by about 10 people. I don't remember how many men surrounded Luis. Probably about five. We didn't understand what was going on. They supposedly came to check the health of our animals, but we only asked them to speak English and show us their documents. When they surrounded us, the Civil Guard officers started shouting loudly in Spanish. Imagine me in the middle. Ten people in Civil Guard uniforms shouting loudly. They're all wearing masks. Many of them were wearing sunglasses. I didn't understand what they were saying, what was going on and why they were doing it.
M.T.: What year was that?
L: It was the year 2022. July 12, 2022. I still shake when I remember everything we went through.
M.T.: I'm sorry to make you relive it, but it's important that people know what's going on. As long as the public doesn't know this problem exists, it can't help.
L: Exactly. That's why I'm doing this. I have a purpose. They've tried four times to take my phone away, but they haven't succeeded. I know that the police are not allowed to take phones away from citizens.
I was trying to get out of the encirclement and one of the officers hit me hard on the shoulder. In that situation, I had only one thing on my mind: I needed to get into the house and protect my son.
They wouldn't let me in there. I was behind the house. All these people were shouting something incessantly in Spanish. I didn't tell them my name, and they didn't ask. There was a woman in a mask. She suddenly said my name. So she knew me. She was definitely from our town, otherwise she wouldn't have known me. While we were behind the house, I saw the vet leaving. That's when I realised that something was going on, and that the vet wasn't involved and that the police didn't want him to see anything. I asked the officers to speak in English again, as I didn't understand them. One of them finally answered me in English. Why had he only spoken to me in Spanish before? This made me angry.
Law enforcers tried to provoke us into aggression in order to arrest us. We did not give in to the provocation and they were unable to arrest us.
I looked the other way and saw Luca being driven away from the house in a green car. I shouted his name. That's when I started to realise what was really going on. They hadn't come to check on the health of our animals, but to kidnap our baby. As soon as Luka was taken away in that green car, all these people got back in their cars and drove off, leaving a cloud of dust behind them. Luis came over to me, we wanted to go back to the house, and I passed out. I was lying on the ground, my heart ached and I was having trouble breathing. Luis called an ambulance. Next, another strange situation happened. Everyone in that town knew where we lived and suddenly it turned out that the ambulance didn't know where our house was. Our neighbour walked the ambulance to our house. I was acquainted with those ambulance staff, they know me too. They didn't do anything, just took the blood pressure. The ambulance was travelling at about 10 kilometres an hour. I know that you can go 80 kilometres an hour on that road. We checked. At the trauma centre they didn't do anything either. They wanted to give me a sedative. I knew a little medical vocabulary. I was allergic to whatever they were going to inject and I told them that. They didn't inject me with anything. I was left feeling strange about it, but Louis supported me the whole time.
M.T.: Was Louis with you the whole time?
L: They wouldn't let him near me. When our son was taken away, he was with me. We were in different parts of our property and saw the situation from different angles. He too had seen his son's abduction. Lucca wasn't even dressed. We had just woken up and he was in his pyjamas. That's how they took him away in his pyjamas. They didn't even let him put his shoes on.
M.T: What happened after the baby was taken away?
L: For two days we didn't understand what was going on and who had taken him. We contacted Joanna (Pahvickiewicz) and she helped us get some information.
M.T.: Joanna is a human rights activist who deals with cases of removal of children from families.
L: She found out which organisation had taken Lucca away and asked for all the documentation on the case. We didn't have all the documents. When Lucca was taken away from the house, Civil Guard officers were throwing some papers on the ground. I didn't want to take them because they were in Spanish and I couldn't read them. They had to give me documents in a language I understood. That's my right too, especially in a situation like this. We picked up these documents and Joanna translated them. When we were given all the documents at her request, we realised then that we had not been given the most important document that could have prevented what had happened.
We later found out that Lucca had been taken away by Zaragoza Social Services. He was in their care for a total of 42 days.
It turned out to be a very short time. All thanks to Joanna, who negotiated with the Spanish authorities and got him back. It was very hard for Lucca. It was like he was in prison. He said so himself. The building where he was held looked like a prison. After he returned home, he showed it to us on Google Maps.
M.T.: Why was he taken away? Were the reasons given to you?
L.: Judging from what we found in the documents, the Spanish authorities thought that Lucca was first living in a mobile home and later in a yellow bricked house. Well almost all of the rural houses in Spain are made of Yellow stones. Lucca never lived in a mobile home.
M.T.: What do you think of the actions of the guardianship authorities who took your child away, and of the whole institution of juvenile justice in Spain?
L: They are arrogant criminals. I can't describe them any other way. This organisation made 68,000 euros just by taking our son away from us.
M.T.: Is it a state organisation?
L: Yes. They took custody away from us without proper legal procedures. According to Spanish law, our family was out of their jurisdiction, so they couldn't take the child away from us. What's more, they had no grounds for that.
M.T.: Have you been given contact details of Lucca or his new guardians that you could keep in touch with?
L: No.
M.T.: They didn't leave any contact information?
L: No, they didn't leave us any contact information. Joanna found a way to contact them, but they didn't want to talk to us.
When I found out the phone number of the social services and called them, I spoke in English. They just hung up on me.
I called them again and again and they hung up on me. They didn't want to talk to me. They ignored me.
M.T.: Were you allowed to see Luca? If not, what was the reason you were refused?
L.: There was a strange situation there. We asked where Luka was. We were told that he was in a safe place. We asked where that safe place was, but they didn't answer. We asked if we could talk to Lucca. We were told we could talk to him on the phone, but then we had to speak Spanish, so they needed to understand what we were saying. We said no. Spanish is not my first language and I will not speak it to my son in an emotionally difficult moment.
M.T.: It's like a real prison.
L: Yes. We asked if we could see him. They said we could meet Lucca, but their specialist would be at the meeting. Again, we had to speak in Spanish. They wanted to write down everything we said. I said no again. I'll explain why. Lucca had suffered a serious trauma at that time. He didn't know what had happened. And then his parents come to him and speak to him in Spanish. He wouldn't understand it. We would have come and he would have thought we were taking him away. We couldn't take him then. We would have left and he would have stayed there. That would have been another trauma. Social Services wanted us to sign the papers in Spanish. We refused. We requested documents in English or an official translator. We never got either one.
M.T.: Have you contacted any international courts or human rights organisations?
L.: We contacted the Dutch embassy in Madrid. They did not want to help us. They only gave us a list of lawyers. We contacted the Dutch authorities who specialise in international child abduction. They did not accept our complaint because they deal with cases where a child is abducted by a parent. That was not our situation. The main objective then was to get Lucca back as soon as possible. Joanna handled it, but we had to sign a document under duress that we would leave Spain within 48 hours.
We had to leave everything: our home, our animals, our friends. I lost my job.
We picked up Lucca, got in the car and drove to the Netherlands. In the car I had to explain to him that he wasn't coming home again, because in the car he was happy that he was finally going home and would soon see his dog and other animals. I realised that this was another trauma for him. Adults can deal with many situations. We are better at dealing with our feelings. Lucca was only 10 years old and he had to go through all this. I can't understand how there are even people who took a boy away from a safe home and a normal family. When he was in that prison, he experienced abuse.
M.T.: What happened?
L: He was sexually abused.
M.T.: Who did it?
L: An other boy.
M.T.: Did you report this to the police?
L.: We tried to file a complaint in the Netherlands. The first time we tried to file a complaint was eight weeks ago, but it was not accepted, although we have the right to report it to the police. The police were obliged to take our report. The first time we went to the police, they did not accept the complaint because it happened in Spain. There is a rule that if you cannot go to the police in the country where the crime happened, for whatever reason, you can go to the police in your country. In our case in the Netherlands. After much negotiation, the Dutch police agreed to take the report. We had a preliminary meeting four or five weeks ago and they have not yet made an appointment to formally accept the report. They are asking us for documents. All the case files are in Spanish. We can't translate them ourselves. The police say they don't need an official translation and that we can translate everything ourselves.
M.T.: Why do you think they do that?
L: Child trafficking. We left Spain and now live in a country we didn't want to live in. We are staying here because of Lucca, as he needs a stable environment. The Spanish authorities informed the Dutch authorities about Lucca's temporary seizure and made an enquiry about our family's life. Why did they do that? They returned custody. They gave Lucca back to us. We signed a document under duress to leave Spain. Then why are they asking for some information from the Netherlands? We have a right to a peaceful family life. It's a human right. They are still persecuting us. Now I notice that all the organisations in the Netherlands that you can go to for help are connected.
M.T.: I wanted to ask before, but now you have mentioned it again. Why did they make you leave the country within 48 hours?
L.: I think they wanted to get rid of us. We have the documents, but now we can't prove anything. Maybe it was counting on the fact that the school year starts earlier in the Netherlands than in Spain. Thanks to Joanna, who led all the negotiations, we got Lucca back in the summer. So the only reason that comes to mind is child trafficking. Perhaps the Spanish authorities want Lucca to be taken away from us also in the Netherlands. Spanish social services earned 68,000 euros while they were holding our son.
M.T.: Do you know any other examples of stories similar to yours? Are there any social movements or organisations that help parents whose children have been illegally removed from their parents?
L: There is a person in the Netherlands who has been helping families for more than 20 years to prevent a child from being taken away. Now he is helping us. I know a Dutch woman from whom three children were taken away and still haven't got them back. She is active on social media. There are probably no organisations. There are two other women who are struggling with child abduction in the Netherlands. One of them has handled many cases and saved thousands of children. She doesn't live in the Netherlands now. She is not safe here.
M.T.: So there are thousands of stories similar to yours.
L: Yes. Ours is unique in that it has an international aspect to it. For the same reason, people are looking for people who can help them get justice in court. They don't know where to start. We have already talked with 23 lawyers. The first question the lawyers will ask you is why the father decided to take the child. Then we explain the situation to them and they give up our case.
M.T.: Nobody expects the government to kidnap children.
L: Yes. A lot of people write to me. That's how I found out that our family is not the only one.
There was a situation in Spain where a 6-year-old boy was taken straight from his riding lesson. No notification was sent to his parents. He was just taken away.
M.T.: Was that explained somehow?
L: That's a good question. I don't like to make assumptions. I need facts. We have ideas, but no evidence, so I won't voice assumptions yet.
M.T.: But you are collecting evidence?
L: Yes. At the end of the day, it's all about the money they made from the situation. We left Spain. Our property is for sale and there have been regular robberies. There have been four robberies so far. Many expensive items have been stolen. They have traumatised our son. Yes, he gets help and support, but it will stay with him for life and they have to pay for it.
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