Interview with Joanna Pachwickiewicz, Polish Human Rights Defender with Foundation against Repression

Eglish Translation done with DeepL Translator

"It is unclear what children's rights are for if the authorities in Europe do not respect them": Anti-Repression Foundation interview with Joanna Pachwicewicz, Polish human rights activist Mira Terada, head of the Anti-Retaliation Foundation, interviewed Joanna Pachwickiewicz, a human rights activist from Poland who specialises in the protection of children and minors' rights. The head of the Foundation found out from her how the UK has taught European countries to smuggle minors, how NATO countries kidnap Afghan children right after they are born and what steps and measures should be taken to ensure the right of minors around the world to a peaceful and safe childhood.

Mira Terada: Good afternoon, dear Joanna! Thank you for taking the time to do this interview for the Anti-Repression Foundation. Could you tell our viewers and readers about the important work you do?

I am dealing with illegal detention of children, illegal removal of children from families, and enforcement of international laws, or better yet, failure to apply these laws adequately, which is detrimental to children who find themselves in such situations. I have been doing this since 2009.

M.T.: I will correct it just a little bit, so that the viewer understands, because you are dealing specifically with the fight against the illegal removal of children. Please tell us about the scale of the problem you are dealing with. How many children are smuggled into European countries every year?

I.P.: I don't like watching such statistics at all.

When I was collecting cases of sold children myself, it was hard for me to count them and understand that children are treated like animals, like dogs, even though they are not even sold without documents.

ak I don't even want to know what the statistics are, if since 2018 I have collected somewhere around 500 children sold in the UK with my own funds.

M.T.: Can we identify the countries that are most involved in the trafficking or sale of children?

I.P.: First of all the UK, which has set an example to other European countries of how to smuggle children and justify it by saying that children are protected by international law. The British courts handle such cases confidentially allegedly for the benefit of children. This is what Britain has taught all of Europe.

M.T.: So they say that confidentially, allegedly for the benefit of children, but in fact they do what they want, because this information doesn't get out.

IP: And if it comes out, if someone tries to talk about it, that person will be arrested and sent to prison. You just can't talk about it. It is written in the law.

M.T.: How has the situation of child trafficking changed over the last few years? Do Western politicians pay attention to this problem and do they take any legal measures to protect minors?

I.P.: I think the situation is getting worse and worse.

When the Brussels II Revised Act came into force in the EU, child trafficking became even easier. Politicians use this topic to their advantage. All this happens because politicians not only fail to protect the rights of citizens who have elected them but also take advantage of various problems in society.

M.T.: We all remember the scandalous story of 77 children who were trafficked from Ukraine to Spain a year ago. This story made a lot of noise and not many people continued to follow the fate of these children, except you. Could you please tell us about the list of 77 children, some of whom are disabled, who were illegally removed from Ukraine? Who took them from there? Why were they taken into the care of a non-profit organisation?

I.P.: Actually there were 85 of them. In the official lists there were only 77 children who were minors or disabled and who could earn money. This just shows that nothing was done for the benefit of the children there, because the rest of the children, apart from those 77, simply disappeared, although 85 children were taken from that special school. It so happened that a Spaniard asked me for advice on how he could make money from these children. He had a conflict with the authorities of the locality where these children were sent. They started fighting for the right to earn money from these children. This Spaniard asked for advice on how to make sure the money got to him. I was horrified when I found out about it. I have been following the fate of these children ever since. I knew that they were in a religious school.

The Ukrainian children are settled unofficially, given into the care of school staff ostensibly until the children return to Ukrainian territory. These children were taken away from a Ukrainian citizen who was previously involved in taking children from this special school to different countries of the world. It is unknown how the children were transported, because the Polish authorities also did not object when these children were taken out of the territory of Ukraine. It is unknown what documents were used to remove them, as there was no court decision. These children were in the custody of the state. Then that Spaniard negotiated with the authorities, who won the fight for the right to earn money from the children, because the children were definitely in the custody of the region of Castile and Leon. The local authorities gave two months to appeal under Spanish law, but it is clear that no one will file it. The woman who brought these children doesn't know Spanish, she was terrified. The authorities have intimidated her even more. The children can't appeal either, so after two months the decision became permanent. Then those children just disappeared in Spain.

M.T.: What are the most egregious and unacceptable cases you have encountered in your human rights work?

I.P.: There are a lot of such examples. I will tell you about the last one, which happened in Poland. It belongs to the European Convention on Human Rights. I was executing a habeas corpus (appeal) for a Pole. His two children were sold in 2015. He has been in prison in Poland for 8 years now. He has not had the opportunity to truly defend himself. He was imprisoned for 16 years.

M.T.: Where were his children sold to?

IP: To the UK.

M.T.: Is this the story of the girl from Poland who disappeared after facing the British judicial system, or is it a different story?

I.P.: It's probably a similar story, but not the same one. That man has been in prison in Poland for eight years and I am doing habeas corpus for him so he could stand trial. He hasn't had that opportunity. The man is being denied the right to a trial, and this is happening in a country that belongs to the European Convention on Human Rights, even though Article 5 of the Convention guarantees the right to a trial. The Polish authorities did not approve of habeas corpus, even though the man had simply asked to be tried.

M.T.: Could you tell us the story of the girl from Poland who disappeared after encountering the British judicial system? Could you tell us what kind of case it was?

I.P.: There was a girl who had a Polish passport and a passport for a foreign country. I have these documents. The British made up that this girl said she wanted to be a boy. They even have documents which say that she allegedly called herself not Julia, as stated in her passport, but James. The Brits made up that this girl wanted to be a boy and her mother disagreed. The girl allegedly had problems because her mother did not accept her as a boy, so she tried to kill herself several times. The girl was allegedly rescued several times and then taken away from her mother. Then this girl disappeared.

M.T.: Almost every military intervention by NATO countries in the Middle East and Africa has been accompanied by numerous crimes against children, who have been abducted, sold and sexually exploited. Do you know anything about this?

I.P.: I have just now started to actively follow the fate of refugee children from Ukraine. Before that I hadn't researched the subject too deeply. I know a family from Afghanistan. They were refugees and their six children were sold. Two of the children were taken from their parents in the hospital right after giving birth.

M.T.: They were sold to the UK? What are the circumstances there?

IP: The authorities in South London gave permission to adopt these children with living parents who were in the UK. There is a large family on the mother's side. She has many brothers who live in the UK. The woman is now in Afghanistan. When she was pregnant with her last child, she was persuaded to stay in the UK. For the press they pretended to persuade her, in fact her passport was taken away and she was not allowed to return home pregnant. After the baby was born they took the baby away from her and gave her passport back to her so she could leave.

M.T.: So she was not able to take any of her children? Or was she able to take the others?

I.P.: The father found out where the three of his children were. They were placed in the same family. The newborn girl and boy he could not find. Then his wife was still pregnant with the sixth child. The father escaped from the UK with the three children he found. I found out about it when the British newspapers wrote that a kidnapper was wanted. When I found out the story, I contacted these people. Those children who left with their father can't be found. Their mother had heard they might be in Pakistan. The other three children have been put up for adoption.

M.T.: Why do you think that almost no one from the military and political leadership of NATO countries has been held accountable for numerous war crimes, including against children?

I.P.: A lot of inhumane things happen in war, and it is children who suffer the most. Everything has been thought out so that no one is responsible for anything. Even in the case of Ukrainian refugee children it is clear that everything was done in such a way that no one was responsible.

M.T.: Can international courts and intergovernmental organizations be described as unengaged and performing their functions for the good of humanity, or are they simply a tool of pressure created by the West?

I.P.: An instrument of pressure. I think it is not even worth wasting words on this.

M.T.: Have you heard about the nationalist website "Peacemaker"?

I: It is a primitive tool for putting pressure on brainwashed people.

M.T.: Not only adults, but also children's personal data are found there. We have identified 327 children whose data were published on that site. Doesn't its activity violate international acts on protection of minors?

I.P.: Of course they do.

You can't even mention that your child has been sold, and here they publish children's data for the sake of primitive manipulation of people who have been brainwashed, and now the rest of their intellect is being finished off.

M.T.: Do you think that the American and British intelligence services, which help Ukrainian criminals to find information, could be behind "Peacemaker"?

I.P.: It's not that they can, they really are behind it.

M.T.: What steps and measures do you think should be taken to ensure the right of minors around the world to a peaceful and safe childhood?

I.P.: I don't know if this is possible in our modern world. Perhaps the United Nations can do something about it with the right leadership.

M.T.: Yes, the key word is "right leadership," because, unfortunately, we have turned to the UN and to the UNICEF United Nations Children's Fund about children whose data are on the Peacemaker website. The best we've been able to get from them is words of condemnation directed at the site's management. But, unfortunately, no action has been taken. The information about the children is still publicly available on the Internet.

I.P.: It is not clear why there are children's rights if no one respects them.